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	<title>Comments on: Thirteenth Carnival of Radical Feminists</title>
	<atom:link href="http://shutupsitdown.co.uk/2008/04/20/thirteenth-carnival-of-radical-feminists/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://shutupsitdown.co.uk/2008/04/20/thirteenth-carnival-of-radical-feminists/</link>
	<description>The nation&#039;s favourite &#34;skanky rad&#34; - even the sex-pozzies love her!</description>
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		<title>By: Thirteenth Carnival of Radical Feminists &#171; Carnival of Radical Feminists</title>
		<link>http://shutupsitdown.co.uk/2008/04/20/thirteenth-carnival-of-radical-feminists/#comment-968</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Thirteenth Carnival of Radical Feminists &#171; Carnival of Radical Feminists]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Aug 2008 00:27:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shutupsitdown.wordpress.com/?p=220#comment-968</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] August 24, 2008 by womensspace    Thirteenth Carnival of Radical Feminists [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] August 24, 2008 by womensspace    Thirteenth Carnival of Radical Feminists [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Britblog roundup #167 &#171; Amused Cynicism</title>
		<link>http://shutupsitdown.co.uk/2008/04/20/thirteenth-carnival-of-radical-feminists/#comment-445</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Britblog roundup #167 &#171; Amused Cynicism]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 23:17:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shutupsitdown.wordpress.com/?p=220#comment-445</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Thirteenth Carnival of Radical Feminists is up at Shut Up, Sit Down. One bit that caught my attention (though possibly not for the reason [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Thirteenth Carnival of Radical Feminists is up at Shut Up, Sit Down. One bit that caught my attention (though possibly not for the reason [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Holly</title>
		<link>http://shutupsitdown.co.uk/2008/04/20/thirteenth-carnival-of-radical-feminists/#comment-444</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Holly]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Apr 2008 06:01:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shutupsitdown.wordpress.com/?p=220#comment-444</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wow, I had no idea I submitted so much!  Thanks a lot for including my posts, you did a great job on the carnival and this edition has a ton of tremendous reads.  Thanks!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, I had no idea I submitted so much!  Thanks a lot for including my posts, you did a great job on the carnival and this edition has a ton of tremendous reads.  Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Cruella</title>
		<link>http://shutupsitdown.co.uk/2008/04/20/thirteenth-carnival-of-radical-feminists/#comment-442</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cruella]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 08:34:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shutupsitdown.wordpress.com/?p=220#comment-442</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great carnival Anji.  Thanks for including my (I didn&#039;t realise) wildly controversial piece!  To respond slightly:  Very little of the scientific research that uses human eggs has anything to do with reproduction.  I am not a big fan of IVF but I think we have to understand that many women feel very strongly that they want to go through that process.  I think we should as a society be asking why we put so much pressure on women to have children which are biologically theirs.  But we can&#039;t deny many women want to have IVF treatment.

Most of the stem cell research that scientists are doing is towards treatments and cures for things like Parkinsons and Alzheimers.  Women will benefit from these treatments as much as men will.  And it&#039;s never really fair to say results so far haven&#039;t justified the efforts being made.  The very essence of science means hundreds of experiments are needed before a breakthrough can come.

The point of what I&#039;m trying to say however is that scientist are ready now to start using animal eggs implanted with human DNA for their research.  If the latest bill doesn&#039;t make it through parliament, progress will be slowed and it will be women who are put through the process of egg donation.  If it does go through, cow eggs will be used instead wherever possible and the need for women to donate will reduce.

For me feminism is about human women and their needs, rights and wants.  I don&#039;t extend that to female cattle.  That&#039;s animal rights in my book.  But also if you object to giving hormones to cattle, and object to cattle being bred solely as donors to humans, then you may as well start with the milk and beef industries, because the egg-production side of things is tiny compared to the rest of the industry.

I could at this point make some points about how women as primary care-givers in so many families will be the first ones to benefit from improved quality of life for Alzheimers and Parkinsons sufferers.  But I don&#039;t think it matters.  The point is to reduce human suffering, regardless of gender.

If scientific research needed access to, say, testicle cells, and there was a choice between using human cells cut out of guys balls or breeding bulls as ball donors, I honestly think they would just breed the bulls and get on with it, they probably wouldn&#039;t even bother with a law.  If anyone stopped them they&#039;d say &quot;but the alternative is to conduct a non-trivial operation on humans!!&quot;, anyone trying to find a way to stop them would be vilified as a man-hater.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great carnival Anji.  Thanks for including my (I didn&#8217;t realise) wildly controversial piece!  To respond slightly:  Very little of the scientific research that uses human eggs has anything to do with reproduction.  I am not a big fan of IVF but I think we have to understand that many women feel very strongly that they want to go through that process.  I think we should as a society be asking why we put so much pressure on women to have children which are biologically theirs.  But we can&#8217;t deny many women want to have IVF treatment.</p>
<p>Most of the stem cell research that scientists are doing is towards treatments and cures for things like Parkinsons and Alzheimers.  Women will benefit from these treatments as much as men will.  And it&#8217;s never really fair to say results so far haven&#8217;t justified the efforts being made.  The very essence of science means hundreds of experiments are needed before a breakthrough can come.</p>
<p>The point of what I&#8217;m trying to say however is that scientist are ready now to start using animal eggs implanted with human DNA for their research.  If the latest bill doesn&#8217;t make it through parliament, progress will be slowed and it will be women who are put through the process of egg donation.  If it does go through, cow eggs will be used instead wherever possible and the need for women to donate will reduce.</p>
<p>For me feminism is about human women and their needs, rights and wants.  I don&#8217;t extend that to female cattle.  That&#8217;s animal rights in my book.  But also if you object to giving hormones to cattle, and object to cattle being bred solely as donors to humans, then you may as well start with the milk and beef industries, because the egg-production side of things is tiny compared to the rest of the industry.</p>
<p>I could at this point make some points about how women as primary care-givers in so many families will be the first ones to benefit from improved quality of life for Alzheimers and Parkinsons sufferers.  But I don&#8217;t think it matters.  The point is to reduce human suffering, regardless of gender.</p>
<p>If scientific research needed access to, say, testicle cells, and there was a choice between using human cells cut out of guys balls or breeding bulls as ball donors, I honestly think they would just breed the bulls and get on with it, they probably wouldn&#8217;t even bother with a law.  If anyone stopped them they&#8217;d say &#8220;but the alternative is to conduct a non-trivial operation on humans!!&#8221;, anyone trying to find a way to stop them would be vilified as a man-hater.</p>
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		<title>By: witchy-woo</title>
		<link>http://shutupsitdown.co.uk/2008/04/20/thirteenth-carnival-of-radical-feminists/#comment-441</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[witchy-woo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 08:22:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shutupsitdown.wordpress.com/?p=220#comment-441</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Fab Carnival Anji.

And welcome to WP too ;)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fab Carnival Anji.</p>
<p>And welcome to WP too <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mad Kane</title>
		<link>http://shutupsitdown.co.uk/2008/04/20/thirteenth-carnival-of-radical-feminists/#comment-440</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mad Kane]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 03:09:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shutupsitdown.wordpress.com/?p=220#comment-440</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great job!  Thanks so much for including me and for your kind words about my feminist humor!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great job!  Thanks so much for including me and for your kind words about my feminist humor!</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle</title>
		<link>http://shutupsitdown.co.uk/2008/04/20/thirteenth-carnival-of-radical-feminists/#comment-439</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michelle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 08:56:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shutupsitdown.wordpress.com/?p=220#comment-439</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great carnival, Anji! x]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great carnival, Anji! x</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: The 13th Carnival of the Radical Feminists &#171; Gorgon Poisons</title>
		<link>http://shutupsitdown.co.uk/2008/04/20/thirteenth-carnival-of-radical-feminists/#comment-438</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The 13th Carnival of the Radical Feminists &#171; Gorgon Poisons]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 08:49:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shutupsitdown.wordpress.com/?p=220#comment-438</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] The Thirteenth Carnival of the Radical Feminists is up and Anji has done a fantastic job. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Thirteenth Carnival of the Radical Feminists is up and Anji has done a fantastic job. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: allecto</title>
		<link>http://shutupsitdown.co.uk/2008/04/20/thirteenth-carnival-of-radical-feminists/#comment-437</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[allecto]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 07:08:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shutupsitdown.wordpress.com/?p=220#comment-437</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hey Anji, fantastic carnival. Thanks for the include. 

I do have a problem with the inclusion of an article in support of stem cell research. There are many radical feminists doing work on the women as egg producers in the scientific experimentation involved in these new reproductive technologies. The risks to women&#039;s health in the pursuit of these experimentations is huge. And really none of the reproductive technologies have been beneficial to women. 

Cruella mentioned that perhaps at one stage cows would be involved and so the impact would not be on human women. But I find that to be unenthical from a feminist point of view as well. I do not believe that non-human females should be tortured in pursuit of masculinist science any more than human females should be. And that is only in the future, it is not a viable option until enough research has been done on women. 

I am opposed to all stem cell research that needs ova from women. I don&#039;t think it is feminist to support something that is highly dangerous, painful and poses long term damage to women&#039;s bodies in pursuit of an unethical, masculinist aspiration to have complete control over life, death and reproduction. 

Anyway, it is easy to believe that masculinist science will save us from nature. I certainly have supported patriarchal science in the past, believing that the technologies would be good for women. RU486, for example. But recent reading on reproductive technologies has left me horrified of the potential of these sciences. I&#039;ve been meaning to blog about this issue for a while.

Argh that Mummy Gets a Tummy Tuck was infuriating. How much more beyond fucked can it get?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Anji, fantastic carnival. Thanks for the include. </p>
<p>I do have a problem with the inclusion of an article in support of stem cell research. There are many radical feminists doing work on the women as egg producers in the scientific experimentation involved in these new reproductive technologies. The risks to women&#8217;s health in the pursuit of these experimentations is huge. And really none of the reproductive technologies have been beneficial to women. </p>
<p>Cruella mentioned that perhaps at one stage cows would be involved and so the impact would not be on human women. But I find that to be unenthical from a feminist point of view as well. I do not believe that non-human females should be tortured in pursuit of masculinist science any more than human females should be. And that is only in the future, it is not a viable option until enough research has been done on women. </p>
<p>I am opposed to all stem cell research that needs ova from women. I don&#8217;t think it is feminist to support something that is highly dangerous, painful and poses long term damage to women&#8217;s bodies in pursuit of an unethical, masculinist aspiration to have complete control over life, death and reproduction. </p>
<p>Anyway, it is easy to believe that masculinist science will save us from nature. I certainly have supported patriarchal science in the past, believing that the technologies would be good for women. RU486, for example. But recent reading on reproductive technologies has left me horrified of the potential of these sciences. I&#8217;ve been meaning to blog about this issue for a while.</p>
<p>Argh that Mummy Gets a Tummy Tuck was infuriating. How much more beyond fucked can it get?</p>
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		<title>By: pisaquari</title>
		<link>http://shutupsitdown.co.uk/2008/04/20/thirteenth-carnival-of-radical-feminists/#comment-436</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[pisaquari]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 01:34:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shutupsitdown.wordpress.com/?p=220#comment-436</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Bravo-ness Anji!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bravo-ness Anji!</p>
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